JPL Scientists Sue Federal Government and Caltech for NASA's Background Checks
August 30, 2007 | 2:58:30 PMCategories: Current Affairs, Engineering, Government, Space
Text By Brandon Keim
Over his four decades at the California Institute of Technology's Jet Propulsion Laboratory,
Dennis Byrnes worked on the Apollo 7 spacecraft, set the Galileo probe
on a course to Jupiter and received a NASA Exceptional Engineering
Achievement Award.
But because Byrnes won't let federal investigators snoop into intimate details of his personal life, he could lose his job.
Byrnes
is one of 28 Jet Propulsion Lab (JPL) senior scientists and engineers
who today sued NASA, the Department of Commerce and CalTech over
background checks required of all federal employees by the Department
of Homeland Security.
"We're talking about the best and brightest scientists in the world. We're talking about jet propulsion, the Mars probe, the lunar landing, Galileo, the comet landing project," said Dan Stormer of Hadsell & Stormer, the civil rights law firm representing the scientists. "And they're being asked to give up their constitutional rights in order to keep their jobs."
At issue is Homeland Security Presidential Directive-12, issued in 2004 but only recently implemented by NASA. It requires all federal employees to sign a broad privacy waiver before being approved for government work.
Though the JPL scientists are technically government contractors rather than federal employees, they're still expected to comply.
The waiver (scroll down) allows investigators to look at workers' employment, financial and medical histories. They can also question friends and colleagues about the workers' psychological health, political background and sexual proclivities.
This is legally acceptable for people in classified or highly sensitive positions, said Stormer, but none of the 28 scientists -- many of whom have been at JPL for decades -- fit that bill.
Byrnes and his colleagues have until October 27 to sign the waivers. If they don't, they'll be fired unless the court grants them an injuction against the deadline. The injunction request alleges that the government's demands violate the scientists' constitutional right to privacy.
Hearings are scheduled for September 24 at the US District Court in Los Angeles.
Beyond the legal issues, the scientists say that the background checks will discourage researchers from working for NASA and are irrelevant to their jobs.
"I can fly a spacecraft to any planet in the galaxy, and I'm being judged by people who don't have a clue as to my technical qualifications whether I'm suitable for government service," said Byrnes.
He continued, "It's already an extremely rigorous process when the labs hire someone. We check your degrees, whether you worked where you said you did. All that is normal and fine. This is something else. This is McCarthyism."
When asked for comment, NASA spokesman David Mould said, "We've been given a directive that applies to all employees, and we're carrying it out."
Allow me to break out a tiny, tiny violin. Everyone in a sensitive position that has anything to do with national security has to put up with background checks. That includes scientists. The intelligentsia are not magically ensconced in an ivory tower. Get over it. The only people that believe you folks are above the law are yourselves, and a very dead Friedrich Nietzsche. Rocket scientits should not be crybabies. I'd love to resurrect Robert H. Goddard just so that he could slap you for spitting in the face of the respect that you receive but don't acknowledge. A respect, I may add, that he did not get during his lifetime.
As someone who has worked directly for the government and as a contractor I feel confident in saying that these scientists are being ridiculous.
Security screenings are standard, not terribly invasive, and are done for national security. The government doesn't want someone transferring sensitive technology (such as rocket guidance systems or advanced communication systems) to unfriendly hands. These screenings ensure that employees are mentally stable and do not have loyalties or ties to unfriendly governments or agencies. Keep in mind that just because something isn’t classified does NOT mean that it isn’t sensitive.
They can also question friends and colleagues about the workers' psychological health, political background and sexual proclivities.
Yet we don't have the right to know these things about a president who is clearly delusional?
They can choose to comply, or choose not to work there. It's a voluntary process, not some covert plan to circumvent privacy rights. I chose (a), and I am OK with it. You choose (b), and what do you expect?
Land of the free, my ass.
captain crunch has it right- if the president doesn't undergo these tests, why should others? -could it be down to use/abuse of power? -i.e. i can so i will... you can't... I think we should be suspicious of anything that applies to some and not to others! what equality?
medical histories
political background
sexual proclivities
First why should any of the above be used? The government HAS NO RIGHT
to this information. The above all
has NO impact on their work.
What the person might have a heart-attack while planning a moon mission?
These are NOT classified positions.
This is a civilian agency. If they don't trust them, they shouldn't
hire them. If they do and they suspect somthing then do an
investigation.
Othewise you have someone judging you--He was a radical when he was
17 years old-ya him and every other teenager. That covers the politics,
absurd.
The last criteria is beyong the pale.
That is totally obscene. This looks a HELL of a lot more like an enemies list.
The questions should be:
1) Why should is Homeland Security Presidential Directive-12, apply to non-classified positions at NASA ?
and
2)is Homeland Security Presidential Directive-12 seems overly broad
in the first place. Now only perfect people who meet all the criteria
of the President's preferences get to do space research? Ya that sounds
democratic...This is utter NONSENSE.
It's perpetuated by a bunch of self-righteous pin-heads IMHO.
Just trying to weed out the drunken/murderous astronauts I suppose....
Oh what a country!
To all those who have indicated that the background checks aren't a big deal, I think you're missing the big picture. I have held various clearances as an engineer working for the government, but the difference is that the background checks were clearly indicated UP FRONT when I applied for a position. In this case it sounds as though these guys have been working for a number of years and are now being told they must either comply or lose their jobs, that doesn't seem like a legal (or fair) thing to do.
Also, let's not operate under the delusion that all the best and brightest minds in the world COULD pass the background check for the various clearance levels. Heck, Wernher von Braun, a German who practically created the American space program, do you really think he would have passed a background check given his Nazi affiliation? Would it have been better to not let him work and took the hit in terms of the advancement of rocketry? The point is that sometimes there are compromises made between hiring boy scouts and whats in the best interests of this country. Would the background check exclude known communists? How about gay scientists, would they be seen as a risk? What if the scientist was an ardent protestor against administration policy, should they be denied further employment? Remember, we are supposed to have the right to not agree with our government or even hold beliefs that others may agree with, who decides what's legitimate free expression and whats a security risk?
I believe that there should be background checks done, but I also think that in this case, given the longetivity of the employees, it may be better for the country to not lose them by modifying the background check to perform a reasonable set of investigations and not an open-ended permission to delve into every aspect of the peoples lives. Either that, or offer people who disagree with the policy an opportunity to move to non-sensitive positions.
The one thing I've learned in government service is that it is probably better to give government what it needs, not necessarily what it wants. With the current "anti-terrorism" paranoia, I think it is time for the people to start thinking in terms of making sure the government is not trampling over our civil liberties in the name of "security". McCarthy wasn't that long ago.
I
think that something that many of the posters don't recognize is that
the employees have been workinging in 'sensitive' positions for many
years and have demonstrated their reliability in these positions. It is
certain that if JPL looses the 28 employees on the suit (and others who
share their beliefs), the 'sensitive' projects will be damaged due to
the loss of expertise with a much higher degree of certainty than the
possibility of the disloyalty that the background check is looking for.
Similarly, if the concern is that critical technology (like
missile guidance) will fall into the hands of the enemy, does it really
make sense to fire the people who are the technology? Whe the Soviet
Union failed, the US hired many of the weapons physicists in order to
prevent the knowledge going to the enemy. I think this was smart. I
suspect this was not contingent on a background check.
Of course, working there for 28 years with no security problem does not give them any credibility in the eyes of The Dept. of Homeland Security.
The Dept. of Homeland Security lacks credibility itself.
Considering Bush's "No Child Left Behind;" you fail if you score a 99%.. for him to say that 13 of 18 goals of Iraq weren't judged fairly and they shouldn't have a pass/fail only grade.. I MEAN COME ON. Oh, wrong topic.
Considering America's obsession with all things unimportant; the last thing we need is to turn off more scientists.
Why would a child want to be a scientist when they can be as famous and popular as Paris Hilton without all that school work.
All the best scientific minds.. are getting older.. and there is no effort in America to encourage children into a science field. All mankind's future greatest scientific discoveries will be made by Non-Americans. But I mean, I need to know what Paris Hilton or Lohan does.. every single day because that's news.. not boring dull science that most Americans would be too stupid to understand.
Well, we would run this story, but then our viewers will feel stupid and change the channel and we'll lose advertising money.
WTB a time machine. I'd go forward or backwards, I don't care; just away from this moronic age of humanity.
So let me get this straight: The government is willing to fire these scientists whom have put in many, many years, even decades of service to the success of various space programs, with all their experience and know how, and are willing to replace them potentially with someone who has no background, experience or know-who to do this work.... nice...
This also has to do with marijuana. The academic/intellectual community has been known to smoke marijuana, so do some engineers and scientists. Back in 2004 when this directive was being thought up, scientists at the time from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration said by implementing this the government was going to ostracize many gifted and talented individuals who would shy away from government work/research because at the end of their day when they go home they smoke a joint instead of drinking a beer.
I used to work for the Aerospace Corp many moons ago and marijuana usage was back then treated as if it was alcohol no big deal, but then with Nancy Regan and her just say no campaign, changed everything.
Of course, I know by posting this comment all the ignorant people will come shooting from the woodwork.
Count it up, people. How many investigators, supervisors, clerical workers, and databases does it take to do one background check, looking for obvious arrest, financial, and academic records?
Now, how much does it cost to do a rigorous check where there the risk to national security is minimal?
Bill Clinton gutted the background check policy for America. Checks that historically took 4 to 7 months were completed in 45-60 days. And a number of the security leaks over the last decade entered their work under the Clinton era.
Anyone remember the McCarthy Era, or remember studying the damage the witch hunts did to trust and respect in American society, or how horribly feared the J. Edgar Hoover years were, when the FBI routinely ran rough-shod over constitutional rights? Remember, very few of those investigated in background checks, or even by the FBI, are actually *convicted* felons.
Anyone following the court battles to get the Bush administration and Homeland Security to obey the current laws about spying on citizens?
Let's roll back the jack boots, and keep 'security' in perspective.
I worked at a DOE lab for years. This intrusive background check is another facet of the Republican War on Science. Right-wingers just can't handle the truth, and a good scientist is a truth-seeker. I wouldn't take a government science job right now if you paid me $1E6.
Pissing off the scientists will ultimately backfire. There's no substitute for scientific research. These guys are leaders in their field. JPL is excising its brain.
We know the White House is lax with background checks. A gay male prostitute received daily passes for well-nigh two years. He was unmasked by bloggers. It's a clear double standard at work here.
i think they should just go work for the canadians or the swiss, lets see how fast it changes were they to take their skills elsewhere,
Jeeze!
I'm so glad I moved away from the USA. The amount of hubris, disregard
for freedom, hypocrisy, ignorance, and the guns and money to back it
all up make me sick. At least now I live in a safe-enough country where
the government is almost too impotent to meddle in my life.
And will anything really change once Bush Jr is out of office?
Under the current administrations, this would exclude ALL evolutionary biologists from federal employment.
The Bush adminstration and the stupid things they did to their own people to "protect them" will fill a whole chapter in the history book of morons.
Who wants to work for a government run by these clowns anyway? I say quit, and let them hire less qualified people and pay the price.
Who wants to work for a government run by these clowns anyway? I say quit, and let them hire less qualified people and pay the price.
Who wants to work for a government run by these clowns anyway? I say quit, and let them hire less qualified people and pay the price.
Who wants to work for a government run by these clowns anyway? I say quit, and let them hire less qualified people and pay the price.
Who wants to work for a government run by these clowns anyway? I say quit, and let them hire less qualified people and pay the price.
do not fire the scientists- fire bush. he started it.
Any judge that fires this man doesn't deserve to wear the robe, because I can't think of a single judge anywhere in the world thats made more contributions to America, and humanity as a whole, than the team at JPL. Sad that we all remember Armstrong was the first to step foot on the moon, but all he did was pilot the thing, he didn't; design, build, or have any idea of what exactly made the craft work, just insert Tab A into Slot B. Guys like this did, and one of them are worth 100 Neil Armstrongs. And I personally want to slap the silly out of any judge that would fire someone like him because of a change in government policy or regulation.
As someone who lost their job of 9 years over this very issue because I was not interested in letting the government pry into my private life including handing over fingerprints and medical records, I think naysayers should ask to what end "national security'? These scientists are being very brave and are fighting for YOUR constitutional right to privacy. Wake up, there is no reason for the governemnt to have more access to personal information than it already does.
That's completely stupid.
I mean, if they refuse to sign and are fired, what will hapen? they are likely to go work for private contractors or other space agency, which will get the informations for sure that way.
I believe they are openings for you at the ESA guys....
Being
psychologically sane does not gurantee NASA that sensitive info will
stay in good hands. And hmmm... Medical history as well as sexual
proclivities. Haha did I hear paranoia and "Moral Majority"?
Welcome to ESA guys!
Land of the free? I think any eastern block country has better chances of passing through this filter than USA. Good luck! Vote Republicans any chance you get. It may not be good for you, but it sure is good for the rest of us.
I like how the people supporting the checks were consummately owned by more sensible minds. That renews my faith in humanity. However, I'm a little disappointed in many of you. To treat the actions of the delusional monkey that became our president by fluke in the first place as the leader of the people's opinion (ESPECIALLY at this juncture, when even his own party feels betrayed and disillusioned with him) is rather short-sighted. Contrary to a lot of the elitist EU ranting I see, it should, I think, behoove you to acknowledge that much more than half the population of this country (and almost certainly most of the population with the presence of mind to pay attention to something like Wired) really DOESN'T support the current office even in lip-service. The US has thrown enough bones to you guys that you can at least try to feel sympathetic to a population with far more at stake than you could ever hope to in this matter, right? Honestly, if think this sucks to WATCH, think about how the two-hundred-million of US feel.
As for the topic at hand, I can't imagine that this will be trivialized. It's a good opportunity to set judicial precedent, and the justices of the supreme court tend to do better than their party lines.
My hats off to these brave and courageous workers who will not allow themselves to be intimidated into compliance with what is a clearly unconstitutional and extremely unwarranted invasion of the their privacy. This just goes to show how corrupt and beyond rehabilitation our current federal government is, and why it needs to be replaced with represntationtal government that is not beholden to corporate America.
Let this be a call to form a second American Revolution!! Our resistance will not be futile and we will succeed in driving the evil repuplican fascists and their true coporate masters from our once great country. Viva la revolucion!
I am a vandor in the HSPD-12 marketplace. Quit your frakin crying and get on with it. Nobody is above the law including these guys whonthink they are irreplacable. HSPD-12 is the smartest thing this administration has done,
If these scientists had been working on programs that are classified to prevent sensitive technologies from falling into the wrong hands, well and good. They should agree up front to submit to background investigations, or not take the jobs.
But to require *all* federal workers and contractors to submit to compilation of personal data is something else entirely. Most government workers and contractor personnel do not handle classified data. There is no legitimate reason for them to submit to investigative intrusions into their personal lives.
What amazes me is that all of this is emanating from the Republican Party, which historically was the party of *less* government intrusion, and fiercely protective of constitutional rights, especially privacy. What has happened to the soul of the Republican party? How did they come to believe that the way to beat foreign terrorists is to clamp down on American citizens?
Oh my! Let us all bow to the unbiased vendor in the HSPD-12 market. The beef of these engineers isn't about being above the law; their problem is that they are intelligent enough: to know the difference between a good law and a bad law, to understand and apply the definition (!) of a right, and to remember how such laws have created more harm than good throughout history. Seems some vendors are to busy with the next quarter to worry about such trivia, aren't they?
Look, I'm no fan of the monkey-boy at 1600 Pennsylvania Av, but the investigations this guy is talking about are standard procedure with anyone who does work on sensitive programs, and propulsion systems would certainly qualify as being sensitive. Imagine the media firestorm and public outrage if it were discovered that a JPL scientist who had never been through a background investigation was handing specs on rocket navigation systems to North Korean agents. It's not unfathomable. Remember Los Alamos?
As for the "sexual proclivities" bit, it's not to be used as witch-hunt material. I'm gay and I work for a federal contractor. I've been through one of these investigations, and somehow (sarcasm) I still have a job. If I worked directly for the military, that would be different, but most other departments, agencies, and contractors shield me from discrimination based on sexual orientation. What they're looking for are skeletons in the closet that could be used to exploit a person into giving up sensitive information. If the person were having an affair and refused to own up to it, or if they had a propensity for looking at child-porn, those would be things that could be used to blackmail them.
Calm down, people. This isn't the end of the world.
There's really no need to worry about this. If the US government fires them a more progressive government is sure to pick them up before the end of the day. Chump don' want no help, chump don't get da help.
I'm glad this is made public though, just so we get an idea of what the government we support through our inaction is really like.
Quote:
"I can fly a spacecraft to any planet in the galaxy, and I'm being
judged by people who don't have a clue as to my technical
qualifications whether I'm suitable for government service," said
Byrnes."
Yes, it must bother some of the elite to be subject to the rules of the unwashed masses.
I suggest that when Byrnes actually flies a spacecraft to *any* planet
in the galaxy outside of this solar system he be granted immunity from
any and all rules and regulations imposed on mere mortals. Plus, I will
be first in line, with lipstick on, to kiss his royal highnass.
What unbelievable hubris.
I would also suggest he get some counseling to discover the source of his God complex.
Who is running this country? Americans who would die for freedom in the world, or Osama Bin Laden who wants nothing more than to destroy the USA from the inside out?
Who would have believed it? Certainly none of our forefathers. Do you think that those who signed the constitution would have even bothered if they could visit the United States of America in our present sad state and see that the very freedoms that they put their lives on the line for are being taken away because we were attacked?
America was the golden jewel of the world. Everyone longed to be here. But we are addicted to using other country's resources. That is really unfortunate because like anyone who has a bad addiction, one day they lose their health, and if they don't stop they lose their life.
We can also hand another victory to those who would like to undermine our country, by giving our best and brightest students yet another reason not to pursue science. If any one at NASA or captains of USA high-tech industry are listening out there, we are step-by-step depleting our most valued resources, and its not fossil fuel.
Smitty who wrote his opinion here on this page says its not the end of the world. He's right its not. Its the end of his basic rights and freedom as an American. Anyone can live under oppression, and much of the world does.
Though I agree there's a risk these guys might release sensitive info to the wrong people, I don't think the government's background check will do much to stop it and NASA stands to lose a lot by offending its best and brightest. Plenty of private companies not affiliated with the government are working on space flight, which means (a) the kind of knowledge in question is already getting spread around widely and (b) aerospace scientists have more job options. Besides, the cat's already out of the bag: China has missiles that can bring nukes to the US, and the list goes on. The focus needs to be on improving science education and morale to stay ahead of the game.
We seem to have been zipping around space quite fine for quite some time now without these new background checks. Where are we going now that they've suddenly become so important? Germany 1938? Maybe these scientists are actually working on secret time travel technology...
HSPD-12 isn't really a law - it never went through Congress. These scientists are entirely within their rights to dispute these intrusive practices, and they deserve support.
And Larry Craig is not gay.
What a perfect opportunity for the Bush administration to replace these guys with right wing political cronies!
Good, I hope they all lose their jobs, and NASA will be unable to function due to the sudden lost of it's brain trust. That'll teach 'em!
I mostly agree with the concept of a background check for working in sensitive areas where advanced technology might need to be kept close. But what I'm afraid of is the current administration disallowing employment because of things like party affiliation, arrests for political protesting, writing an essay on global warming, having an left-leaning views whatsoever, etc, etc...
I would: let the govn't fire me. Collect HUGE unemployment checks, eventually find a job working for Scaled Composites or another such venture. Rake in more dough. Meanwhile, China will land on the moon while NASA is training college kids with Lego Mindstorms kits in hopes to catch up to where they were 15 years ago.
Lots of pharm/biotechs also want you to sign away your life almost to this same level, not just including a drug check but giving them permission to go through every aspect of your personal records. I interviewed at a J+J company recently and refused to even consider signing that kind of document. They weren't even working for the govt.
Look
people, NASA is at the cutting edge of tech for the US. They hand down
their tech to the military as well as civilian entities. They are no
different from private companies that put a 'scope up your butt when
vetting workers who may be working in highly classified areas.
Not to be a flag-waver or anything but the US has pretty much lead the
world in tech development since the 50's. (not mentioning atomic
research in the 40's).
Sorry to break the news to some but this is not a big group-hug global
world. We would be foolish to not protect our intellectual assets by
assessing those who have access to some of the most advanced tech.
There may be countries with less intrusive backround checks and more
advanced research facilities than the US. Feel free to pursue your
dreams in those Utopias, otherwise, get out of the kitchen.
every government employee and contractor.....
yeah we really need to run intensive background checks on the guys that mow the lawn.
All I can say after reading everyone's comments... glad I don't live in the U. S. of A.! Sounds too much like 1930/40's Germany! Think about it people! Know your history so you don't get screwed over!! Oh yeah... and start reading/watching other media besides the American News. It will be very enlightening! Trust me!
I wish i could say that something like this completely took me by surprise, but i can't. That the same administration that proudly announces that it doesn't believe in evolution is more worried about the political background and sexual preferences of its top scientists simply demonstrates the number 1 flaw with their appointment practices. I'm quite sure, after all, that rove, brownie, and cheney are straight as an arrow republicans and just look at how great a job they did/are doing!
I work for a different gov't agency and we went through the same thing. Everybody agreed to it and no one was fired - no one lost their job because of the background checks. It's not that big a deal UNLESS you have something major to hide (or maybe something you consider embarrassing). Look: you DO have the right to privacy, yes. But you DON'T have the right to a government job. Sometimes you just gotta choose.
Let's not mince terms here.
This is fascism. If you study fascist governments all the way from Suharto in Indonesia to Hitler in Germany, this bears every single trait of a fascist state in its most incandescent bloom.
It is not the duty of any citizen, no matter how "sensitive" their position, to have to "prove who they are" at every turn. It is simply not the government's business. Never was, never should be. If we're trying to still pretend that we're living in a free, representative democracy, we're not doing a good job of it.
How many people here emphatically asserting their trust in the government actually know where it originates from? Who are you trusting? Why?
It's been said, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
We should have learned our lessons about corrupt government during the Nixon administration.
@PoBiidy:"But you DON'T have the right to a government job. Sometimes you just gotta choose."
Nice "straw man" attack. Do you know
what that is? It's attacking an argument no one mde. No one here
(from what I can read) is arguing it is A RIGHT. They are just saying
thatHomeland Security Presidential Directive-12 is overly broad and,
seems designed to specifically stick it to people with non-conformist
backrounds. Get a clue please. Sometimes you do have to choose. Just
not in this case: NASA IS A CIVILIAN AGENCY (JPL is just an affiliate
outfit). They are not a top-secret government contractor. Science is
about sharing discoveries by the way, and NASA even has a public
web-site.
There are NO sensetive projects this would protect. Can you say "NONSENSE" ?
@Jay: "No one here (from what I can read) is arguing it is A RIGHT." Ah, I see English is not your native tongue. Or maybe you didn't RTFA. They claim the background checks violate their right to privacy. The background check is now a condition of employment. In order to preserve the right to privacy, these employees may have to lose their jobs. In other words: they can keep the privacy and lose the job, or give up the privacy and keep the job. That's the choice. No straw man here. You fail!
As PoBiddy said: "But you DON'T have the right to a government job."
And as a rule government jobs don't pay nearly as much as a comparable job in private industry.
While I appreciate the argument against checks some workers may have, I
wonder why these workers are not in the private technology industry-the
second leading edge in research.
"Who is running this country? Americans who would die for freedom in the world?"
Bzzzzt. I don't give a turd about the rest of the world, and certainly wouldn't die for their freedoms. That's what THEY'RE for. If THEY want THEIR freedoms so badly, THEY can die for them.
I'm ready to die for MY freedom. Land an invasion craft on any shore in this country to see what I mean.
"the private technology industry-the second leading edge in research."
Question: Are you saying that private technology is behind the government?
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
From
the perspective of what's right for our country, this is another
directive that someone didn't think through the consequences. It will
severly limit the pool of qualified scientists.
Look at what has happened to computer-encryption companies. Due to the
laws that US companies cannot sell encryption to other countries, now
every encryption company has moved their development into other
countries. Our best encryption is now built in Russia, China, Israel,
and Sweden! From there, they can sell it to the US and whoever else
they please. This is COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE!!!!
Clearly, we are most secure when we antagonize the best and the brightest in the country. There's no sense in promoting morale and loyalty; keep up the bend-over-or-get-out policies!
a background check is not the end of the world, by any stretch of the imagination. i myself had to have one done for my job in a casino and that took almost a full year before i was cleared. do i have things that i wish no one else knew that could probably be discovered in a check like this one? absolutely. but folks, these are GOVERNMENT employees. lets not kid ourselves here. whether it was 3 decades ago or 2 years ago, they knew or had a basic idea of what they were getting into, in terms of security and clearances. perhaps 3 decades ago more so than today. so quit the whining, admit you are ashamed of something in your background, sign the paper, and keep your job/pension.
Anonymous wrote: "Sad that we all remember Armstrong was the first to step foot on the moon, but all he did was pilot the thing, he didn't; design, build, or have any idea of what exactly made the craft work, just insert Tab A into Slot B. Guys like this did, and one of them are worth 100 Neil Armstrongs."
Armstrong? You got the wrong guy.
He was an aerospace engineer by training, turned test pilot because
he wanted to see firsthand how things ought to be designed rather than
designing by the book. He may not have designed the craft, but I'm
pretty sure he was heavily involved in some of the LEM redesign, and I
know for sure that he had a very good idea of exactly what made the
craft work. Unlike some of the test pilots in the Apollo program,
Armstrong was far from "just" one of the best pilots in the world; he
was also a first-rate engineer. So, find a different target for this
comment!
@Kristen Philipkoski--Thanks for pulling my post. So calling someone
names is not allowed but he can
say I don't speak the language well.
Got it. Nice censorship. Have a good one.
yall dont understand how far they will go. \This is just the beggining.
it makes me sad to see our power deplete. Forgive humanity ,if you have the stomach.
""I can fly a spacecraft to any planet in the galaxy, and I'm being judged by people who don't have a clue as to my technical qualifications whether I'm suitable for government service," said Byrnes."
Typical scientific-type myopia. There are numerous factors to consider beyond your ability to check if 2+2=4.
However, I am very concerned with the growth of this trend of "background checks." It seems you can't get a job, any job, without police permission.
Maybe you should actually read the links in the article instead of taking someone's word for it. The Homeland Security Directive requires that Identification Badges be secure and not easily counterfeited. To prove their identity the employees are asked to fill out Form SF85, a standard form in use since at least 1995 (the date on the form itself, http://hspd12jpl.org/files/sf85.pdf). Instead of Bush Derangement Syndrom, go blame Clinton for this "destruction of the Constitution."
Seems like bin Laden has won. We're paranoid, gutting the Constitution, cutailing our privacy and freedoms, and effectively squandered the good will of the globe with our policies post 9-11.
BTW, to laugh at the statement that the best tech in the world isn't in some government agency or project is pretty ignorant. Where else could someone design, build, and test an x-ray laser, for example? What private industry has the resources to fund such novel concepts?
The JPL scientists might have enormous egos, hubris, and obnoxiousness galore. But look into the history of the atomic bomb scientists and learn from their ethics dilemas. Many of them escaped facist regimes. I wonder what they'd say now if they were alive and could compare environments then and now?...
Homeland Security is the equivalent of the Soviet secret police of the past. The fact that zionist Chertoff has Israeli/US dual citizenship means he serves his Mossad masters. This gathering of private information on scientists is for the purposes of extortion, murder etc.. Zionists always decapitate leaders to gain control.
Welcome to Nazi America People!!!
Hide your intelligence, your sex, your money, your children, your life, and RUN TO THE HILLS.
After WW III - then come back out. The morons will be dead by then, hopefully.
JPL really means Just Plain Lucky. It's about time that JPL, and other NASA centers, adhere to Federal regulations. The internal workings of NASA are a sham. Read about all of the crap that goes on internally with NASA employees at http://www.nasawatch.com/archives/culture/
Waaahhh! Boo-hoo! Dumbass. This man's claims are farfetched and stupid. I hope he chokes on his own hubris.
Ah well, that's 28 scientists who will no doubt be welcomed with open arms at E.S.A., C.E.R.N., etc. :-D
--
This may be good news. The more the guvmint drives away the best and brightest, the more they will work for private enterprise. All that will be left will be the bullies and morons that seem to gravitate to guvmint service, and our socialist system will collapse under it's own weight. Then we might actually get something done.
Dennis Byrnes is just scared that certain details of his past will come to light. Details known only to himself and his countless victims. He kept a log book of his years as a scout master in the 1960's. He arrogantly claims that he scored with nearly 100,000 cubscouts. All those kids, now adults, with hopelessly stretched sphincters. They have to wear adult diapers, because their poop just falls out. What an evil man. Who knows what ELSE he has done?
Not one of you gets it. Not one! The universe ends at the US border. End of story. QED
These scientists can quit or get fired, but what are they going to do? They CAN'T work for ESA, CERN, the Chinese space program, or even the Canadians. Once you cross the US border, you cease to exist. There *IS* nowhere else! There is only the USA. All else is void.
The President -- peace be upon him -- makes all Americans great, even if only by comparison. He can replace pot-smoking eggheads with followers of the One Truth, and nothing will change.
God is on our side. It is pre-destined that we shall prevail!
These scientists are saying what they think, and not what truly is. Their allegations of what the security investigations entail are WRONG!!! These educated folks need to educate themselves.
HSPD-12 directed the Secretary of Commerce to create a standard for the federal government, and all those who work on federal property and access federal computers to follow. That standard is a mirror image of what federal employees have been doing since 1953 (yes Dorothy, for over 50 years). So why is it okay for the federal government to contract out "those jobs not inherently governmental" (see OMB Circular A-76) to contractors (which these scientists are), then allow them to work on federal facilities (which JPL is) and not expect that these contractors be subjected to the same level of scrutiny that federal employees have been since 1953?
According to the California Institute of Technology's finance report, these scientist work on a federal facility (The Jet Propulsion Lab) and Caltech snatches down BILLIONS of dollars from the federal government each year. So I guess these scientists don't believe that the federal government needs to know the trustworthiness of those who are working with federal tax payer's money. If that isn't an elitist attitude - WHAT IS? What don't they understand about "my yard, my rules?"
As a tax payer, I don't want untrustworthy people working with billions of dollars of federal funds, and I'm sure sensitive information (aren't these guys dealing with nuclear powered spacecraft??). Other than conducting these investigations, are we supposed to take their word that they're "the good guys?" So they've worked at JPL for 20 years. That automatically means they're trustworthy. GOT IT!!!! What a weak argument by such "smart" people. They've more dollars than sense. Their lawyers are taking them to the poor house and they don't even realize it!
Do they believe that because they've worked at JPL for 20 years, they're trustworthy and there is NO WAY they can be passing sensitive information to the Chinese, Iranians, or Russians because they're smart? HELLO MCFLY!!!
If you've nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. Wonder why these people are so fearful?
Earth to JPL Scientists: GROW UP, quit believing you're special, and that the federal government is "out to get you." You want to work with NASA, then quit whining and do your work, and fall into the ranks like all the federal workers from whom you gladly take their money. If you don't - then quit and go sell your wares elsewhere. There's a big need for your talents outside the government.
You're going to lose this suit and when you do, you should buck up
and quit work with Caltech, and refuse to partner with either them or
NASA. But we all know none of you don't have the fortitude to do that!
I am a Republican. My dear Mother, rest her soul, was a Republican. My Grandmother, who has been long departed, was a Republican. My Great-Grandfather was a Republican (GOP) before Womens Sufferage. That lineage covers more than 100 voting years. Yet as I witness the profound incompetency and gerrymandering of this Republican administration I am confident that my ancestors would, like me, henceforth, vote for Democrats. Maybe for the NEXT 100 years. SD
Many have it right ... we are doomed to repeat our failures because we fail to learn our history!
This facsism too shall pass but hopefully it will not be the undoing of the great experiment called the US of A!
Blessed are the retarded for they shall inherit the Presidency.
All you folks with BDS are going to have a very shoking dose of reality hit you in the face as soon as his term is done. Once again you'll have to face your own lame existance and find someone to blame for it.
Well, I can't believe how many lemmings are out there, the blind leading the blind. HSPD-12 is simple - if you want to work where taxpayer dollars are spent on federally funded projects, then fall in line and let's level the playing field with collections of common background info. Simple.
However, if it was a policy being started from this day forward I doubt anyone would complain, new hires would say no problem, I'll comply for such a cool job - the problem is HSPD-12 was not implemented this way. Instead, there was no grandfathered approach... So, a few brave long-timers are complaining. I can't believe any rational adult with cogent reasoning ability could blame them - this assumes the adult is rationalizing cogently and not reacting, which is what all but a few seem to be doing with their comments here.
(I offer this analogy - for anyone new to buying a house, the taxes seem high - and they are. No doubt. However, some time ago a fellow named Jarvis rallied and lobbied to keep our property taxes at 1% - remember that? (Especially if you've lived in your house for many, many years) well, I think HSPD-12 is not much different... in this respect... if a new government policy started from this point on and required all you home owners paying taxes based on purchase prices from 20-30 years ago caused your cash flow to go out the window because your taxes just went up 10 fold, you'd be complaining loudly too. While those of you who know you can't afford to buy your neighbor's house because the taxes would be skyhigh, there are many young buyers who don't believe it's fair you should have a tax break and not them. well, HSPD-12 is similar.
Trying to wrap it up, the folks at JPL standing up as the foundation for the HSPD-12 class action law suit are not rocket scientists (somehow readers have incorrectly concluded that everyone at JPL is a scientiest) the fact is 99% of folks working at JPL are not scientists, but rather, they are folks just like all walks of life - mail carriers, shipping clerks, secretaries, forklift drivers, firemen, guards, and all sorts of engineers and administrative assistants, along with managers and scientists and more. These few folks (maybe some who are scientists so they can claim their case of not wanting to work on classified jobs) represent approximately 5000 diverse folks doing just about every job you would find in any city.
In SUMMARY, The problem is people don't like change. Plain and simple. HSPD-12 is not so intrusive (nearly 5000 have complied, minus the 28?), but the fact is about 98-99% of those who have complied don't like it any better than the 28 who areholding out against it - the difference is what makes JPL (and really, America) great - when people stand up against the flow of common belief to achieve unique and innovative solutions to challenging problems - well, that is what makes JPL great! And, I for one applaud them on principal alone - for like the silent majority who overtly criticize these rebels (while enjoying the property tax advantages I used as an analogy) - I'd really like to see you all take a stand and give up your rights (or are they property tax priviledges?) if you were asked, because no one wants to be told to roll back the clock for any reason. It really is quite simple - but let's don't see folks taking pot shots from the peanut gallery and calling the kettle black. By doing so, it only be-littles what makes JPL and their best and brightest strive for magic in the name of America and its best Science and space programs. nuf sed.
Background check 101:
During the initial background check, you will be fingerprinted,
government agents will interview your family, friends, neighbors,
colleagues, and coworkers. They will ask each of those people to refer
them to others who know you and could offer insights into your
character. They will record all comments made, even those that would be
considered hearsay in a court of law. During the interviews, no effort
is made to sift through the information. They merely collect it. All
this information is kept on file. Negative information, even if it is
false, becomes part of your official file, which you will never see
unless you file a FOIA request. If you pass the background check, and
continue to work in a capacity where one is needed, it will be repeated
periodically. You agree to notify the agency performing the background
check of: address changes, name changes, loss of credit or denial of
loan applications, travel outside the U.S., arrests including traffic
violations with fines that exceed ~ $300 (I'm not sure of the current
number). You agree to explain your actions and behavior, on request.
You agree to searches of your person, vehicle, home, or computer, on
request. You agree to surrender your personal computer, on request. Any
person living with you in a spousal relationship is subject to a
similar background check.
I'm not surprised the scientists balked.
EDITOR: Adam Rogers | 
I could maybe understand that they be required to submit to a background check. Maybe.
But "they will be deemed to have voluntarily terminated their employment" just seems ridiculous.